Question for Brian Leonard (welder)

[Dr. Meyer]

Submitter Question: I wanted to follow up on what you said in the dying traditional trades thread. Are there so many blacksmiths concentrated in the southern part of this country because of all the iron work in homes there? Is it more likely for a welder to repair old iron fences, or a blacksmith?

Thanks

Answer: I can’t speak for the entire southeast, I really don’t know. In the greater Asheville, NC area, however, including most of western NC, eastern TN and upstate SC, there does seem to be a higher concentration than the rest of USA. It stems largely from the arts and crafts history of Asheville and the southern Appalachians. This area is very craft friendly and has been a crossroads of sorts for the craft industry for many generations. Some of the other “dying” trades, weaving, and chair making for example, are well represented by artisans in this area, as well as blacksmiths. That seems to draw buyers of said crafts, and the circle is completed as the buyers create a market for more craftsmen to peddle their wares. This increased interest is one thing that helps support the area craft schools and organizations that, in turn, create even more interest. On a more local scale cities like Charleston, (Chahlstun) SC and New Orleans, (Nawluns) LA have supported a decent market for generations simply because there is a lot of this kind of work, much of if dating back to when European craftsmen were settling in the area, bringing their skills to our shores.

Regarding the repair of old iron work more often than not a welder will be the repair person, if for no other reason than sheer numbers. While I do believe black smithing is not dying out, it is still a very specialized trade with far fewer people practicing it, compared to welding and fabricating. If I was looking to get some wrought iron repaired I would start with checking local steel shops and asking if they are competent in this type of work. Often if a given shop doesn’t want to take on a hand forged project they will know if there are any smiths in the area who will.

Brian Leonard,
Appalachian Ironworks L.L.C.

[ModShari]

Question: Brian, I want to go into a career as a welder and I live in Hawaii. Where is the best place for me to start? Should I go straight for the apprenticeship or go to some trade school first?

Answer: Well that’s a simple question that I have a hard time giving a simple answer to. The answer might change depending on where you’re at career wise, too.

I would say the 1st thing to do would be to thoroughly explore your options.

If you’re just out of high school and still have the privilege of living with your folks I’d say head to trade school for some training and get some certs* while you’re there.

If you’re changing careers and have to pay bills and supprot a family it’s going to be easier finacially to look for an aprenticeship through an employer, bear in mind that you’ll have to start at the bottom of laobr pool and work your way up. You’ll need to prove yourself along the way, too. You move up the career food chain after you’ve proven yourself competant, productive and willing to do whateveer is asked, not before.

In my experience the smaller shops will have more opportunity to prove yourself, but that’s a very general veiw point since every employer is different.

I would suggest this course of action:

1) Assess your needs, i.e. do you have to make the rent and buy diapers, or do you still live realtively bill free and have a little leeway financially.

2) What sort of programs are available where you’re at? What tech/trade shools and willing employers with at least some o.j.t. or full on apprenticeship programs are around.

3) Give yourself an honest assesment of your skills.

4) Where do you want to go with this career? Welding jobs cover a very broad range of industries and many will require lots of travel.


Take your answers to this mix them all together and see what makes the most sense for you.

[Appalachian Ironworks LLC]

Dang I need to do a better job proof reading my stuff.

See the asterisk by the note about certs?

I want to expound on that a little.

Welding certifications are a much misunderstood subject by many outside the welding industry, and by some in it, too.

Many trade schools offer certificates at the end of their program, some offer a "certificate of completion". Basically all that's just an official note saying you completed the course satisfactorily. Do not confuse that with a true, industry recognized "Welder's Certification"

Most [union] apprenticeship programs do lead to certifications in their field. Having worked only in open shops for my career I'll defer to their members for more information on them.

No matter which path you take to get it, acquiring your first cert shouldn't be the end of an aspiring welder's journey of training for several reasons.

Here's a few:

1) Welder certifications are a very specific thing, there is no one cert that covers all welding industries and jobs. As a matter of fact there is no one body that governs all welding certifications. There are a few organizations that have gained national prominence and have become the "industry standard" accepted by most Government agencies, insurance companies, and construction organizations and companies. These groups have, through regulation and policy decisions, sort of self selected certain portions of the welding industry as their "turf", so to speak.

In the United States there are 3 widely used groups.

• The American Welding Society / AWS. www.aws.org They typically deal with structural codes mostly involved with buildings and bridges.
• The American Society of Mechanical Engineers /ASME Section IX. www.asme.org They deal, mostly, with boiler and pressure vessel codes.
• The American Petroleum Institute / API. www.api.org They oversee pipeline welding codes for the gas and oil industries.

That's not even considering the aerospace or transportation industries. To make matters more confusing there is often some overlap on any given job since all three sectors can be in play at one project, especially things like power generating plants or refineries.

2) Even staying with the same sector and governing body each certification is specific to certain factors. Things like the material used for the work piece (for many cert tests they're called coupons) the position of the coupon when welded, the welding process and filler types used. AWS calls this information the WPS or welding procedure specification. There are many prequalified WPS's and you can even write your own depending on the project. Most welders really should carry at least a few certs to truly be covered for their work.

3) When you get your cert you're not done yet. Most certs require, at a minimum, that you use that specific type of welding no less than once every 6 months in a verifiable manner to keep it current, and some will require record keeping, submittal and, in some cases, fees.

4) A business, in certain cases, may "self certify" its welders. But that's a whole 'nuther can-o-worms not worth opening here.

5) Many application critical project's management will pre-qualify or certify applicants themselves or in conjunction with one of the afore mentioned organizations. I've worked with one fellow who, at a previous critical job, had to test every day before he could start his shift, and if he failed had to go home for that day and try again before his next scheduled shift. If he failed more than 3 tests in a 30 day period he'd lose his job. Shew, talk about pressure, and to apply for that job being certified wasn't even a prerequisite.

So there you have it, a little knowledge about certifications.

Be careful wit it, a little knowledge can be dangerous.

[ModShari]

Question: I'm in east Tennessee I have always wanted to do welding and metal fabrication. Are there any good trade schools that you would recommend or anybody in the area that might be willing to do take in a apprentice?

Answer: I wish I could be more help, but I’m not personally familiar with the schools in your area. As far as finding a willing mentor I’d start with hitting up every shop, erector, and welder in your area for an entry level job. I know times are tough but keep at it and be sure to have, and express, a good, willing to learn, attitude. Don’t try to impress folks by throwing around slang and stories of vast experience (I’m throwing this out for everyone, not trying to suggest you’d do that).

Most places would rather take on and train a willing applicant who is prompt, professional, and a self starting go getter, who has a little knowledge and skill over a more seasoned person with a bad or know it all attitude. I know I would anyway.

It’s far easier to train a certain skill to someone with a good attitude than it is to teach a good attitude to someone with a certain skill.

How far are you from Marshall, NC?

[ModShari]

Question: Mr. Leonard: I am 71 years old and interested, I think, in Tig welding. I knew someone that said the work consisted of welding small components. He said it was a sit down kind of work. I am a U.S. Veteran. I was employed by SouthernBell/BellSouth Telephone for 22.5 years. Later I went to work for the U.S. Postal Service, but had to retire on disability. Where should I begin to learn Tig welding? Any information/help you provide will be greatly appreciated.


Answer: Well you’ve already started the search for knowledge by coming here.
There’s a couple of welding related forums with some folks who share lots of information, www.weldingweb.com and http://weldfabzone.com are 2 good ones.

A continuing eduation class is a great place to get some hands on learning as well as access to the euipment with having to shell out the money before you’ve had a chance to try it out. I’d also check in with any local welding supply house and see if they’re aware of any teaching type venues in your area. You could check out welding schools, too, but I feel you’d be better served with a few classes at a tech school versus a full on welding school, mostly because they usually have more choices in regards to schedules and prerequisites.

Tig welding can consist of small parts assembly, but by no means is that all. Tig (Tungsten Inert Gas) welding also called GTAW (Gas Tungsten Arc Welding) is used for a vast array of applications for several reasons. Some of them being the precise control it allows in applying heat and fillers, its ability to join certain alloys not easily welded otherwise and the ability to manipulate the small torch in tight spaces.

Some common GTAW applications are welding aluminum, titatium, or inconel, food grade stainless steel products and many piping applications. It’s also is a preferred method for many racing, off road and specialty chassis builders.

So if by sit down you mean sit, stand, crawl over, under and into, then yes, it is sit down work. It all depends on WHAT you’re working on.

I hope this helps.

[ModShari]

Question: I've become fascinated with welding and was wondering the best way to get in to it. You said that a lot of people start as hobbyists. How does one start to weld as a hobby?

ANSWER: Some folks go all in from the get go and buy some equipment and safety gear and start burning rods (or wire) a.s.a.p.

I, personally, think one of the best ways is to take a couple of continuing education welding classes first. This does 2 things, first it gives you some hands on learning that will help give your skills a kick start, second it will give you a chance to try different machines without having to buy first.

Keep an eye open for demo days at your local welding supply houses, too. Many supply houses have these once or twice a year to draw new business and to let their customers try out the new equipment.

When you start looking to buy equipment you’d be wise to stick with the big name manufacturers. I’d look for good used machines first, you often can find good deals by being patient and get more machine for less cash.

When buying new I like to stick with my local welding supply house for a couple of reasons. It keeps your money in your local economy helping your neighbors keep their jobs and if there’s ever a problem with your equipment they’ll, usually, help out dealing with warranties and repairs. Often I’ll shop the online stores then compare pricing locally, and so far one of the three supply houses in my area will beat the internet pricing.

I’ll add some advice to anyone getting into welding as a hobby. BE SAFE! Make sure you get and use the appropriate safety gear. Keep at least one good fire extinguisher nearby while welding, make sure if you’re running a welder from home that your electric service, wiring, and outlets are suitable for the job. Be pro-active about fire safety and remove any hazards before they cause trouble. Make sure wherever you weld has adequate ventilation.

Once you get set up whether it’s at home or school or getting shop time somewhere, don’t be afraid to pratcise, practise, practise. It takes time to hone the skill.

If you’re like most folks, once you learn how to weld you’ll wonder how you ever got along with out it. There’s so much you can do with some skill and some basic equipment.

[ModShari]

Submitter Question: I live in Mobile, Al and am willing to travel if I can find a job as a welder. I recently learned to weld SMAW, GMAW, and SMAW at the AIDT Training Center in Irvington, Al. I can measure, cut with a toch, arc gouge and weld wash. I saw the gobuildalabama.com commercial and it led me to mikerowworks.com and thats how I found your name listed as a welder. I've been trying to find a job as a welder since I graduated in October, but most places require 3-5 years of prior experience. I worked with LD Directors from North Carolina at the end of October when they were working in Mobile, Al but I didnt have enough experience to be able to weld fast enough for them. Can you give me any advice at getting my foot in the door? -- David H.

Answer: Hi David,

The best advice I could give you is don’t give up. Ever.

Keep knocking on doors making phone calls and tracking down job leads. Check the local news papers and online listings, too. See if you can find helper/labor positions at the type of place you want to work. Once there learn all you can and apply yourself and you’ll move up through the ranks. Your lack of experience may hinder your efforts so you may need to show your enthusiasm and good attitude to get noticed. (You DO have both of those right?! ? I knew you did)

You might want to join up on networking sites like LinkedIn. If you’re willing to relocate you may want to look into working in “the oil patch” , check out AWS’ forums at http://www.aws.org/cgi-bin/mwf/forum_show.pl and rigwelders’ forums at http://rigwelder.com/index.php?optio...sion&Itemid=55. Being down on the gulf coast you’re not too far from a whole lot of pipeline, refinery and rig work concentrated in the northwest corner of the gulf. There are a few folks on here from that region who may be able to shed more light on that.

Works is still slow in many places so there’s more competition for available jobs, but there’s work out there, you’ve just got to keep digging to find it anymore.

Now aside from all that let’s address your skills. You say,

“I recently learned to weld SMAW, GMAW, and SMAW…but I didn’t have enough experience to be able to weld fast enough for them.“

To me that means you need to continue to work on your skills, not that that fact alone will keep you from a job, but it will limit the jobs that your skill set, realistically, is suitable for. So find ways to get more hood time and, more importantly, learn as many different skills while you can. Whether it’s community colleges, trade schools, apprenticeships, or if you have the space and equipment (it really doesn’t take a whole lot to get started) start building stuff. The more projects you take from start to finish the better you’ll understand the principals of any project when you do find work.

Brian

[SLS-Construction]

Great reply Brian - hopefully you don't mind if I add one little item to this comment "I didn’t have enough experience to be able to weld fast enough for them"

Slow = fast & perfect practice = practice / i.e. make sure you don't concentrate on just getting something done fast, but getting it done correctly, with time the speed will come

Best of luck

[Appalachian Ironworks LLC]

Great reply Brian - hopefully you don't mind if I add one little item to this comment "I didn’t have enough experience to be able to weld fast enough for them"

Slow = fast & perfect practice = practice / i.e. make sure you don't concentrate on just getting something done fast, but getting it done correctly, with time the speed will come

Best of luck

Good point Sean, any time saved by hurrying too much is instantly vaporized as soon as a redo becomes necessary.

Like my dad always says, "If you don't have to to do it right, you'd better make time to do it again."